The Postwar L.A. of Gin Wong
Trudi Sandmeier 0:00
Today on Save As.
Nirali Sheth 0:01
He just always look towards the future and if you see his interviews he always said that my most favorite building is the next one.
Trudi Sandmeier 0:15
Welcome to Save As: NextGen Heritage Conservation, an award-winning podcast that glimpses the future of the field through the work of graduate students at the University of Southern California. I’m Trudi Sandmeier.
Cindy Olnick 0:28
And I’m Cindy Olnick. So, Trudi.
Trudi Sandmeier 0:31
Yes, Cindy.
Cindy Olnick 0:33
Today we talk with freshly minted alum Nirali Sheth about her thesis on architect Gin D. Wong, FAIA. He was born 100 years ago in September, and he lived a really long life. He only passed about five years ago. He helped shape postwar Los Angeles, and he was well-known and highly esteemed within the architecture world. But today, not enough people know about him.
Trudi Sandmeier 0:57
So I had an opportunity, when he was still with us, to go visit him in his office as he was packing up and deciding what items he was going to include in his archive that he donated to USC. And it was really lovely to walk through his office and look at his models and talk about his projects. His family was there and it was a really amazing experience. And he was a lovely gentleman. We also had a really wonderful event with him celebrating his life and his career when he donated the archive to the university where we all got to sit around and chat and hear stories of his career. And we printed these really amazing little 3d models of some of the buildings that he was involved with. I have, very delightfully, a little Transamerica Tower in my office now from that event. And we also have one of our lecture halls in the School of Architecture named for him, he was a longtime trustee at USC. And so they honored him with naming Harris 101, which is the largest lecture hall in the School of Architecture as the Gin D. Wong Conference Center. And so his name is very much a part of the School of Architecture, in particular, but also in USC more broadly, because he was involved across the university. So that’s kind of exciting.
Cindy Olnick 2:19
Yes, and the archive still needs more funding. So if you are able, and so inclined, please consider contributing to this very, very worthy cause to continue building the legacy of this extraordinary architect. You can learn more at our episode page at SaveAs.place.
Trudi Sandmeier 2:38
When he passed away in 2017, I was asked to do some interviews about his life. And when I was doing that, it occurred to me that we didn’t have any scholarship about his life and his career. And that was a gap. And unfortunately, you know, we often realize that when people pass away that we just don’t, we haven’t asked all the questions we needed to ask. So this was an opportunity for a student that wanted to come along and do some in-depth research while we still had the family around and available to have conversations too. And so Nirali came along and was really interested. She’s an architect by her training as an undergrad, and she was really interested in Googie architecture. And this was a great fit. It was a total home run in terms of a match between a topic and a human
Cindy Olnick 3:33
Match made in heaven. All right, well, let’s take a listen. We had a wonderful on-site interview with Nirali and several members of the Save As Dream Team. We went to one of Gin Wong’s most iconic and one of Los Angeles’s most iconic buildings in Beverly Hills, the 76 Gas Station, which is a must see, and it’s got an amazing story. And we had a great time. We also happened to be near the police and fire station in Beverly Hills, so if you happen to hear any sirens, don’t be alarmed. We’re fine. All right, here’s my interview with Nirali.
So we’re talking with Nirali Sheth. Nirali, please introduce yourself for the Save As listeners.
Nirali Sheth 4:23
Hello, everyone. I’m Nirali and I’m going to recently finish my graduate studies in conservation from University of Southern California. I’m originally from Mumbai, India, and I did my undergrad in architecture. I practiced for four years and I realized I like history more than building buildings and knowing the stories. It was my forte which is how I landed in California amongst you guys. And I met Trudi and all the beautiful students at conservation program and I realized, hey, conservation is all about stories and knowing, sharing stories, learning about stories. And that’s how I landed up here today.
Cindy Olnick 5:04
Well, we’re glad you’re here. And you know that heritage conservation is a one way street, right? Once you’re in, yeah. Okay, we got you. Welcome. So why did you choose Gin Wong for your thesis?
Nirali Sheth 5:18
So across the few years that I was in the program, we had a lot of research papers that we had to write about. And then most of them, I realized, for the lack of a better word, were really funky. One of my papers was about Googie architecture, and I related it with Jetsons, the TV series and how Jetsons inspired all these buildings across, not just Los Angeles, but across Southern California region. And one of the people who worked on a few buildings was Gin Wong, and that’s my first brush with him. And then once I started doing the thesis, I realized his story is so much more layered. It’s not just Googie architecture, but it’s just it’s a lot of history.
Cindy Olnick 6:03
So how’d you go about your research?
Nirali Sheth 6:05
I did a lot of archival research. I went through William Pereira’s archives, or Pereira & Luckman’s archives. It involves doing a lot of research, going and annoying a lot of head archivists. I know I annoyed Stacy, who was my colleague.
Cindy Olnick 6:20
I’m sure it was a pleasure.
Nirali Sheth 6:22
Oh, yeah. I mean, she’s a sweetheart. And she and Trudi, they helped point me in the direction of the right archives. And it was during COVID, so they had so many restrictions, like getting the right clearances. There were days when I was just waiting for like couple of hours outside hoping to get a badge and get let in. And then something I should point out, USC has Gin Wong Associates archives, but then they are not processed. So I couldn’t, you know, access them.
Cindy Olnick 6:46
You couldn’t even go in and look at the paper. It’s not like they are not digitized, they’re not even processed, like no finding aids or nothing. So you did an entire thesis on a man whose archives you couldn’t even see.
Nirali Sheth 7:00
Yes, luckily for me, there were a lot of people who worked with him who could shed light on his work and point out the right directions, or these are the projects we worked on. I interviewed Mr. Millard Lee, Bruce Bailey and Mr. Kenneth Lee.
Cindy Olnick 7:14
And you talked to his daughter.
Nirali Sheth 7:31
Yes, I did. Jenna Wong Lee. She did course correct me and gave me a lot of factual information. She took time off to explain a lot of things which is really insightful.
Cindy Olnick 7:28
Well, that’s great. Well, tell me a little bit about him.
Nirali Sheth 7:31
Architect Gin Wong was born in China in a small village. Two years later, he lost his father and his mother realized that going west would be a good way to go ahead in life. So she sent Gin Wong with her friend Lee Shee Wong, whose husband was already in Los Angeles as her paper son.
Cindy Olnick 7:50
Paper son. I’ve never heard that term before.
Nirali Sheth 7:54
Basically, Los Angeles had certain laws which restricted migration to only family members. So in case of Mr. Wong, since he lost his father his mother decided to send him as the son of her friend. So he became a sort of, not exactly adopted. But then on paper, he became the son of Lee Shee Wong. And that’s how he migrated to the United States and he landed up in Los Angeles. Chinese Americans have been coming to Southern California region since the early 1800s. Most of the immigrant community was forced to live in ethnic enclaves across Los Angeles because of racial segregation, discrimination. In general, there was a lot of racial violence. So they were forced to live in specifically old Chinatown, which is currently the Union Station area. Old Chinatown was completely razed. And so the people staying into old Chinatown were forced to live in two areas. One was the upcoming City Market Chinatown area, which is near 9th and San Pedro streets. And another area was West Adams, the whole corridor. Gin Wong, his paper father, lived near City Market Chinatown. He worked as a grocer. Chinese started farming around the 1900s and they sold produce at these city-designated farmers zones to sell fresh produce and other stuff. Within these enclaves the community fostered; so there were a lot of community organizations, banks, various establishments, including grocery stores.
Cindy Olnick 9:30
And how did Gin Wong get interested in architecture?
Nirali Sheth 9:35
So Wong did his studies in Los Angeles in one of the schools which allowed all people of various racial communities to work and he graduated Polytechnic High School and he went to Los Angeles City College. And then when the World War happened, he enlisted in the US Air Force. He was a bombardier there. Gin used to make posters for the Air Force and one of his fellow servicemen kind of got it and he informed Gin Wong of how his father works as an architect. And he saw him quickly drawing and that’s how he suggested architecture. He studied at another university for one year before coming to USC. And within the Southern California region, USC was, at least in the 60s, was the only college which offered architecture course, which is how he was studying at USC.
Cindy Olnick 10:25
As well as important predecessors in the Chinese American community in the Thirties, right?
Nirali Sheth 10:30
Yes, Gilbert Leong and Eugene Choy. Both of them graduated from USC and they practiced within Los Angeles area. Gilbert Leong was one of the first people to join AIA in Los Angeles.
Cindy Olnick 10:43
How about that! Fun fact: The Bank of America, Chinatown branch that he designed with Richard Layne Tom is on its way to landmark status as we speak.
So he goes to USC and graduates in what, like 1950, and then starts his career. And where does he start working?
Nirali Sheth 11:16
Okay, so as an immigrant, you need to hustle. It’s something which is genetic to all immigrant communities.
Cindy Olnick 11:22
You have to work twice as hard.
Nirali Sheth 11:23
Yeah. So he was constantly working since his first year. He worked at a couple of famous firms.
Cindy Olnick 11:29
DMJM, I think was one of them.
Nirali Sheth 11:31
Yeah, that was one of them. His mentor William Pereira, who was a professor at USC around that time, around the 1950s, he started his own firm with University of Chicago graduate, Charles Luckman. He started his firm, Pereira & Luckman, and they were known to hire fresh graduates to work within their firm.
Cindy Olnick 11:51
Wong studied with Pereira at USC, right?
Nirali Sheth 11:53
Yes, he learned under him. And I think he narrowed him down as somebody who has a lot of potential. So he hired him, and then he never looked back. I think his life found its direction.
Cindy Olnick 12:04
And what is the situation with architecture in the city at that point?
Nirali Sheth 12:08
So in 1950s, that’s postwar, Los Angeles became one of the eight cities, because you have a lot of industries, oil industries and insurance companies setting up headquarters. You have a lot of manufacturing plants wanting to build their offices and plants within the city. That is the aviation industry and there’s the entertainment industry, so Los Angeles is one of those go to cities.
Cindy Olnick 12:32
Booming.
Nirali Sheth 12:32
Yeah, absolutely. Which led to a shift in architecture.
Cindy Olnick 12:36
I think you have in your thesis a quote from Wong, who said the postwar building boom was a time when men with deep pockets wanted to create buildings to enhance their own images, unique structures that would define them and stand as, their mark.
Nirali Sheth 12:49
Yes.
Cindy Olnick 12:51
Well, that says it all.
Nirali Sheth 12:56
So you have all these old architectural firms, which are modifying the practices, there are new firms coming up, which are very corporate in nature, to meet the corporate nature of Los Angeles City. So these corporate firms have had a very hierarchical setting. You have the directors, you’ve got vice principals and presidents, and then you have different departments working. So there is a separate part for designing, there is another one for just working on the structural and mechanical aspects of this. There’s another just for services. You know, there’s another one just drafting it. So you’ve got so many different layers within the firm.
Cindy Olnick 13:31
He started working with Pereira & Luckman, and he’s a hotshot, I mean, he moves up the ranks pretty fast, right?
Nirali Sheth 13:36
Oh, absolutely. He does. So one of his earliest projects was CBS Television City, which was one of the eight buildings in Los Angeles. I think that’s when his work started getting noticed. Because it had these new technologies: folding walls, which you could just kind of pick it up and just like remove it and expand the building. You’ve got moving seats, and you’ve got a model to set up different production studios. That’s how he was recognized, I think.
Cindy Olnick 14:03
Yeah, it was the first purpose-built studio for for television. And it was built to be expanded and changed over time, which I think is super interesting because they’re expanding the site right now.
Nirali Sheth 14:16
Oh, yeah. And it’s one of the elements that he makes sure all his designs have to make sure that, Oh, do we have enough parking, or this needs to expand, this needs to mold into something in the future and I think it’s one of those contemporary principles, which is, this not really anything groundbreaking, but I think contemporary architecture aims to be that, but he had a building that was modern this time.
Cindy Olnick 14:38
Right, you write that he did utilitarian buildings that maintained an artistic flair.
Nirali Sheth 14:43
Yes. He definitely did a lot of utilitarian buildings because they were very crisp in planning. He made sure all his basics are in place. You’ve separated out the circulation. You will give enough parking, you divide the floors properly. You make sure it’s not lacking open spaces and your greens. He made sure all of those basics are in place. But then at the same time the building needs, I mean, it’s architecture, you can’t have ugly looking buildings. For me, I think they were modern. They got all the modern principles, he included new technologies within his buildings. And he found his own style. While getting interviews for my thesis, I talked to a lot of people who worked at Gin Wong Associates. Mr. Millard Lee talks about this.
Millard Lee 15:29
He liked the simplicity in design. When you have a simple design, it becomes more timeless. A lot of the buildings that he designed personally and the firm designed were pretty simple statements. And so then they would age pretty well.
Nirali Sheth 15:50
A lot of times, he alludes to his Chinese education system, which is really three-dimensional. And I think, you know, one of the interviews, he also pointed out that a lot of Chinese paintings are really simplistic, where you have a white canvas, and you just put a few lines and dots. And I think that’s thematically something which he follows across his buildings — to be minimal, but be precise. And obviously, his three-dimensional learning helps as an architect, and then to come of age in a city of Los Angeles postwar and you have this entire, the boom within the city in construction, in growth, I think that leads into the ever-changing, and ever-evolving design. And then at the same time, it also, if you see his buildings, it has a lot of technology in it. And at the same time, it’s always looking for a scope of expansion. And I think it comes from this expanding, transforming city. And I think both of these were great influences to his work and his design language.
The mid 1950s, he got his own project. That’s the the Union Oil headquarters. That was one of his earliest projects, which he handled on his own.
Cindy Olnick 17:18
Okay, that is a super cool building. It’s now L.A. Center Studios. And it’s, if you’re near downtown L.A. a fair amount, you’ll recognize it. It’s sort of off on the other side of the freeway from most of the downtown buildings, but it’s got this super cool shape.
Nirali Sheth 17:31
Oh, yeah. And then that was, I think, one of the first buildings to have a bridge connecting to separate parts of the plot. There’s a, I think it was called Beaudry Avenue, which divides the site and you’ve got two buildings and there is a bridge connecting, a pedestrian bridge, and that was the first building doing that.
Cindy Olnick 17:46
So one of his huge projects is actually leading this gargantuan team to modernize the Los Angeles International Airport.
Nirali Sheth 17:57
Yes, I think the principal architects trusted his work enough and they made him the Director of Design for this project, which is Los Angeles’s need to become a city of the future.
Cindy Olnick 18:08
So I would imagine a talent in, you know, space planning and circulation would be critical for an airport.
Nirali Sheth 18:13
Oh, yes, absolutely. So yeah, LAX was like this one project which actually did set examples for other airports across the world, because he had this system called the satellite boarding system, satellite terminals, which separated the circulation within the airport. And you had these underground tunnels or walkways which led to the terminals.
Cindy Olnick 18:34
And of course, you cannot talk about LAX without talking about…
Nirali Sheth 18:40
Oh, the team building. It is so important. I think this was one of the most interesting aspects of doing this thesis, because I realized there was this photo of Gin Wong outside LAX along with a couple of other famous people, including Paul Williams. So a lot of times Wong is miscredited as a designer for this.
Cindy Olnick 19:12
So he worked with Pereira & Luckman for a long time and then actually helped Pereira start his own firm, right?
Nirali Sheth 19:19
Yes, he worked at Pereira & Luckman for almost a decade. By the time it was 1958 he was the vice principal. And then in 1958, they separated and Pereira set up his own firm, William Pereira & Associates. He maintained his position there.
Cindy Olnick 19:34
Well, he was a leader of the firm, right ?
Nirali Sheth 19:36
He became the president. Yes. His role became really supervisory and more than anything, I think his love for design, it was his need to also have more hands on the design aspect of working in a firm.
Cindy Olnick 19:52
He spent a lot of his career working for other people.
Nirali Sheth 19:55
Yes, he spent like just over two decades to work under a big banner firm. That’s major. And I think that brings up an important point, because you’ve got so many people working within the firm, and working on the project to just deliver one project. So how do you kind of attribute to give credit to the people working? I mean, in movies, we have credits rolling at the end of the movie, but then when you are building structure, how do you address it? Because nobody is going to open newspaper and read 500 names, I mean.
Cindy Olnick 20:26
That would be a really big cornerstone, right? Where they put the little information, that would be huge.
Nirali Sheth 20:32
And that will be just like, crazy. And then sometimes, for famous projects, newspapers would pick up and address maybe a few major people working on the project. But then what about the others? So I think because Wong worked under, for Pereira & Luckman and then at Pereira’s firm, William Pereira & Associates, working under a big banner firm, which has this really dynamic and famous architects. So a lot of times his name and others were overshadowed.
Cindy Olnick 21:02
Yeah. So that really affects how you can research the legacy of these of these architects.
Nirali Sheth 21:07
Yes. So it becomes really difficult to figure out which buildings really work, what was his actual work? I mean, did he work on the whole of the design, or he was just supervising. So you need to really dig, dig into it, look into archives, and I think it was one of the processes, which was, it was fun, but tedious also at times, because you’re going through hundreds of newspapers, you’re going through like archives, which is like 150 boxes and just sifting through the information is really difficult. And I mean, for somebody, just an everyday person it’s going to be so difficult, because I’m not going to go through archives and newspapers. I mean, as somebody whose it is my job to do it, but then what about others? So obviously, it’s forgotten.
Cindy Olnick 21:49
All right. Well, yeah, no wonder Bruce Bailey had something to say about why he started his own firm.
Bruce Bailey 21:55
I think he realized that if he was going to be named as the architect of a building, he had to own the firm. And therefore, working for William Pereira, and it wasn’t like Pereira & Wong, you know, so he wasn’t gonna get as much credit unless he, you know, his name was on the door.
Nirali Sheth 22:14
When he set up his own firm Gin Wong & Associates, he got a lot of work through word-of-mouth, and his previous clients or previous developers. This first office was at 5900 Wilshire, which was an office building he did for Walter Shorenstein while he was working at Pereira & Luckman, and I think they gave him a spot within the building. He got some projects through Walter Shorenstein when he set up his firm. So I think it’s an important aspect of his career that even though his name is not known by many, it was not a household name within the industry, people knew his work, they knew his career and he’s gonna get the job done. He knows what, he knows his subject, he knows the corporate world, he knows how corporate firms work. When you set up your own firm, you’ve got the manager in that aspect and the design aspect and you know, supervising one of them and I think he knew what to do. I think it comes from working under both Pereira & Luckman because Luckman was known to be this big businessman. And William Pereira was somebody who is passionate about design and planning,
Cindy Olnick 23:16
And he worked really well with clients, I guess.
Nirali Sheth 23:19
Yes, you hear so many people who came back to him, CBS Television City did, Union Oil. In fact, the gas, Union 76 Gas Station was also somebody who was working at the Union Oil headquarter building and they loved his work.
Cindy Olnick 23:33
They ended up going back to previous projects and doing expansions or alterations. Yeah. And so what are some of the other buildings that Gin Wong Associates did?
Nirali Sheth 23:45
LAX was a continuous project. Yeah. So he did the ARCO Center, which is now called 1055 West 7th. ARCO headquarters then.
Cindy Olnick 23:54
He did the Four Seasons Hotel in Beverly Hills.
Nirali Sheth 23:57
The production drawing and the building part of the Crystal Cathedral.
Cindy Olnick 24:01
The tower there.
Nirali Sheth 24:01
Yeah, the green tower, and the center at Beverly Hills, which is now the United Talent Agency headquarters. They kind of modified the building, but you can see the hands of Wong, you know, the touches of Wong.
Cindy Olnick 24:14
Yeah, he was also apparently quite the incubator of talent.
Nirali Sheth 24:18
Yes, according to Mr. Bailey, he knew the right people to hire who were passionate about design, and about architecture, and I think many of them went ahead and set up their own firms.
Bruce Bailey 24:30
People would come to work for him. And they would, you know, show off some of their skills, and were doing good work. And then, but when they realized that, you know, he probably wasn’t ever going to want to have any partners, you know, I think there was probably at least four firms that were created out of people that worked for us that became bigger than Gin Wong Associates. Maybe not with the name recognition, but you know, became midsize firms doing lots of good work. So he was pretty good at, you know, finding good talent, and you know, and working with them. And then, you know, when they got to the point where they needed to be in charge themselves just like he wanted, off they went.
Cindy Olnick 25:14
And you know, he didn’t close that firm until 2015.
Nirali Sheth 25:21
I think he was a workaholic. I think all the interviewers would say this. He was not mobile because he was really old.
Cindy Olnick 25:27
He was like 92.
Nirali Sheth 25:28
Yes. And he still wanted to work. He never wanted to give his firm to somebody else. He didn’t want partners. And I think he wanted to keep that to himself. And they realized that there are a lot of ongoing projects. Mr. Millard Lee talks about this, because he was working on the airport project, and at that time, AC Martin did not have credentials to work on the airport project. But then Millard Lee had, and he worked there and he took the team with him. So it worked in the favor of both the firms. And similarly, a lot of these projects were completed, and they eased off in closing the doors on the firm. Yeah, yeah.
I also wanted to point out something. He never spoke about any racism that he faced or anything that held him back, he just always look towards the future. And if you see his interviews, he always said that my most favorite building is the next one. And I think that was his philosophy in life. Don’t look at problems, don’t look at issues, just look toward the future. Even when he was talking about his migration and the Great Depression years, he said, there was no Depression, we saw bread lines, but there was bread. So I think that’s so important to know that he was always looking ahead.
Cindy Olnick 26:39
Okay. Let’s go look at a gas station, shall we?
All right, so we are here at the corner of Crescent Drive and Santa Monica Boulevard. And there’s quite a striking structure across the street. Tell us about it Nirali.
Nirali Sheth 27:04
It’s one of my favorite Gin Wong structures. This is the Union 76 Gas Station, which is also known as Jack Colker’s Gas Station.
Cindy Olnick 27:13
So it’s this huge concrete, basically triangle that’s like, you know, smooshed down in the center so the ends are reaching up to the sky.
Nirali Sheth 27:24
Yes, it’s beautifully designed. You’ve got your services at one corner, you’ve just got like, three pillars coming down. And the rest of it is just a swooping, triangular, lit roof. And…
Cindy Olnick 27:40
Don’t forget the tiles. They’re my favorite color. What color are they?
Nirali Sheth 27:44
Oh, it’s the Union 76 brand color orange. And I think that the friezes add to the charm of the building.
Cindy Olnick 27:52
It’s surrounded in orange. It’s got the big orange 76 ball there. I can’t imagine a cooler place to get gas.
Nirali Sheth 28:00
It is one of the most recognizable buildings in Los Angeles. It’s in Googie style. It’s one of my favorite styles, it is so inherent to LA. It’s a pleasure to see in the morning, but it is even beautiful at night when they light up the lower section of the roof and it looks like this swooping roof going towards the sky and like a UFO. To me it is a reflection of the futuristic Los Angeles Airport, flying swooping roofs, Googie-style UFO. This was originally designed to be a part of the central plaza at LAX. Mr. Millard Lee talks about this.
Millard Lee 28:39
So the gas station was meant to go at LAX. And there was a triangular site at the entrance to LAX, kind of across from the theme building. That’s why the roof is triangular. The city being a public agency has to put it out to bid. And so Chevron won the bid.
Nirali Sheth 29:01
Oh my god. Okay.
Millard Lee 29:03
So Union 76 was very sad that they lost the bid, but they loved the gas station. They said we have to build it somewhere. And they found this site in Beverly Hills where it would fit and that’s how that happened.
Nirali Sheth 29:18
The owners of the gas station a lot of time find out how celebrities used to come in fill gas here. I mean, it’s in Beverly Hills.
Cindy Olnick 29:25
Gas station to the stars.
Nirali Sheth 29:27
If you’re in LA and you’ve not seen the station you’re missing out for sure.
Cindy Olnick 29:31
Definitely. And you know, there’s pictures of it everywhere but they don’t do it justice.
Nirali Sheth 29:35
Oh, they don’t and especially at night. You need to see it at night.
Cindy Olnick 29:40
Absolutely. Throughout his career and throughout his life, Mr. Wong kept close ties to his alma mater, right? To USC?
Nirali Sheth 30:03
Oh, yes, he did. He was on the trustees. He donated frequently, he worked with William Pereira & Associates for the University Master Plan during the 1960s. I think there were two of them. And then he designed Olin Hall of Engineering, which is one of the famous buildings on campus. And then he worked on the restoration of Widney House at Gin Wong Associates. Oh, and I think Mr. Bailey really talks about this, that as a trustee, he also had to overlook the different projects or different proposals that come to USC to develop or work on the architecture. And he frequently brought it to office to see if it’s right, the proposal is working, or there’s something wrong with it.
Cindy Olnick 30:43
And there’s an architecture scholarship in his name as well.
Nirali Sheth 30:47
Yes.
Cindy Olnick 30:48
And what are you up to now?
Nirali Sheth 30:50
Oh, I was trying to look for jobs as an archivist, because I feel like that’s another important part of conservation. I mean, it’s also making sure all these stories get translated into, like, in some tangible form. I think while doing the thesis, I realized when you know there’s a lot of things missing. So if I can at least save some of the work. And I definitely want to continue research into Gin Wong as an architect, but also about this idea of credit.
Cindy Olnick 31:17
So this idea of credit and attribution to architects who work on these enormous teams continues today, right?
Nirali Sheth 31:26
Oh, yes, there are so many lawsuits and legal issues that come with it, especially in present day because you’ve got people who are working, who are laid off, who decide to set up their own firm. So does the previous firm credit them and I mean these are so many tricky questions that I think pop up nowadays. Doing this thesis, it made me aware of this really important aspect of design and, you know, design industry. Also, as a loudmouth feminist, I think…
Cindy Olnick 31:59
You’re in good company.
Nirali Sheth 32:01
Yeah. I mean, all of these films are run by white men. As an architect of Chinese heritage, I think he was definitely somebody who was overshadowed. The Chinese American Museum did the exhibition called Breaking Ground, which did address this. And they also pointed out Helen Liu, who was a designer, not an architect, but she did a lot of interiors, and she was one of the few women designers who are recently bought into the forefront.
Cindy Olnick 32:30
Yeah, Helen Liu Fong worked for Armet and Davis and actually designed Pann’s.
Nirali Sheth 32:35
Yes, she did. Yes. Hopefully, these are beautiful. And they’re Googie.
Cindy Olnick 32:38
They are Googie. We are gaga for Googie. Okay. Thank you Nirali for joining us this morning and talking about this topic and this architect who was clearly near and dear to your heart.
Nirali Sheth 32:52
Absolutely. This is like the best thing to do to nerd out on something that you really like.
Cindy Olnick 32:57
Right? Yeah. All right. Thanks for being with us on Save As.
Nirali Sheth 33:01
Thank you so much for having me.
Trudi Sandmeier 33:07
Thanks, Cindy, and Nirali for this really great conversation. Again, if you’d like to learn more, visit the episode page at SaveAs.place and connect with us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at Saveasnextgen. All one word.
Cindy Olnick 33:23
Tune in next time for a conversation about deconstructing older buildings. Sure, it seems obvious to reuse all materials. Is it conservation? And what role does it play in these conversations we’re having about climate change. And you know how you can make sure you don’t miss that episode? Subscribe to the podcast, review it perhaps and tell a friend. That would be terrific
Trudi Sandmeier 33:57
This episode was produced by Willa Seidenberg and Cindy. Thanks to our fabulous intern Emily Kwok for upping our social media game. And to Danielle Armstrong for her fantastic photos of Nirali’s interview, which you can see on our saveas.place episode page. Also huge shout out to the team at the USC Annenberg Agency for their marketing help. Our original theme music is by Steven Conley. Additional music for this episode is by Tom Davies. Save As is a production of the Heritage Conservation program in the School of Architecture at the University of Southern California.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
