The Hidden Heritage of San Francisco’s Fisherman’s Wharf
Cindy Olnick 0:00
Today on Save As …
Emi Takahara 0:01
People don’t really know about the Italian and Sicilian heritage, or even the early people, the Yelamu that lived there, they’re not thinking about it as being a place of heritage, they’re thinking of it as being a tourist destination.
Cindy Olnick 0:24
Welcome to Save As: NextGen Heritage Conservation, an award-winning podcast that glimpses the future of the field with graduate students at the University of Southern California. I’m Cindy Olnick.
Trudi Sandmeier 0:36
And I’m Trudi Sandmeier.
Cindy Olnick 0:38
We’re back with a new episode of the podcast with a recent graduate Emi Takahara.
Trudi Sandmeier 0:45
This was a fun thesis to work on with me because she really wanted to explore the sort of culinary history and impact of Fisherman’s Wharf on San Francisco. And not only did it make me hungry a lot of the time, but it was really interesting, and it just kind of a totally different angle.
Cindy Olnick 1:07
I know I’m so hungry.
Trudi Sandmeier 1:09
So the area of Fisherman’s Wharf has been a place where people have been fishing for a long time starting with, you know, the original Native American inhabitants of San Francisco, the Yelamu, one of the tribal nations that was there. And then continuing on with waves of immigrants who came and really turned that into a seafood industry.
Cindy Olnick 1:35
Yeah, and Emi has a culinary background. So once again, heritage conservation students take these really unique perspectives, and look at conservation issues through the lens of their own passions, which is fantastic.
Trudi Sandmeier 1:51
Yeah. And she did a lot of in-person interviews, talking to people who had worked on Fisherman’s Wharf for a long time and longtime family members who had been involved in the place.
Cindy Olnick 2:02
And I’m so glad Emi’s out in the world now, working in a currently at Historic Resources Group, and doing the interview is Save As producer Willa Seidenberg.
Trudi Sandmeier 2:12
So let’s hear all about it from Willa and Emi.
Willa Seidenberg 2:19
I’m here with Emi Takahara, a 2023 graduate of the Heritage Conservation Program. And Emi, you were actually on a previous episode of Save As about the Mafundi Institute.
Emi Takahara 2:33
That’s right. Yes.
Willa Seidenberg 2:35
So we are returning to Emi. But today we’re here to talk about her thesis on Fisherman’s Wharf in San Francisco. So welcome to Save As Emi.
Emi Takahara 2:46
Glad to be here.
Willa Seidenberg 2:47
So first, how did you end up finding your way into the heritage conservation world?
Emi Takahara 2:55
I think I kind of always had been interested, but I didn’t know it was a profession. I was introduced to Preservation magazine, but I didn’t really see myself represented in the magazine. But then, in 2018, there was the Asian Pacific Islanders in Historic Preservation conference in San Francisco. And I found their topics to be really interesting, and pretty different from what I was seeing in mainstream preservation. And I could see myself doing the kind of work they were doing, what they were talking about and they were just weren’t afraid to talk about kind of hard issues. So I started to think, oh, maybe I could do this.
Willa Seidenberg 3:42
So you moved to Los Angeles and enrolled in the Heritage Conservation Program at USC, where we were classmates. But when it came time to pick a thesis topic, you went back to your hometown of San Francisco. Tell us the name of your thesis.
Emi Takahara 4:00
Yeah, the name of my thesis is The Restaurant That Started It All: The Hidden Heritage of San Francisco’s Fisherman’s Wharf.
Willa Seidenberg 4:06
So why Fisherman’s Wharf?
Emi Takahara 4:08
The thing that I thought was so interesting about Fisherman’s Wharf was the contrast between all of the millions of people that come to the city would descend on Fisherman’s Wharf and make it one of the places that they wanted to go see, and locals were just not interested. They would stay away, they would say, just don’t go there. That was kind of the message growing up all the time. If you had little kids, people would go there. And I definitely went there as like a little kid. But yeah, as an adult, you just were like, Why would I do there? It’s T-shirt shops and just shlocky stuff, overpriced food. But the thing that was so interesting is in this small city, there’s a pretty significant area of the city that San Franciscans were supposedly not going to.
Willa Seidenberg 5:00
So your thesis profiles one of the restaurants on Fisherman’s Wharf called Fishermen’s Grotto No. 9. How did you come to focus on that restaurant?
Emi Takahara 5:11
Sometime in the early 2000s, I started working on the Embarcadero. The Embarcadero was an area that traditionally actually had had chocolate manufacturing from Ghiradelli from the 1800s. And there hadn’t been any chocolate manufacturing since about 1965 when Ghiradelli actually left San Francisco. And so I was working at this new startup chocolate company. And I think I just took one of the historic trolley cars down to the Fisherman’s Wharf area. And I happen to find myself walking into the lobby of Fishermen’s Grotto No. 9 and into this very strange gift store. And the gift store was kind of like this time capsule, it was full of vintage tchotchkes. And none of them were for sale. That was what the sign said: it was like not for sale, not for sale, not for sale. And I thought it was so peculiar and strange. And it made me just think, well, what kind of interesting place is this and what’s going on here. And it just actually kind of led me to think about the area.
Willa Seidenberg 6:21
Tell us about the beginnings of Fisherman’s Wharf.
Emi Takahara 6:25
Fisherman’s Wharf kind of developed organically, as it was a natural bay in San Francisco. And there was an early businessman, and he built a pier called Meigg’s Wharf in the mid-1800s. And that allowed for a lot of ships to come and dock there. He ended up leaving in the middle of the night, owing a lot of money, but however, he had this Meigg’s Wharf. So it was pretty much just commercial fishing, and a lot of shipping coming in and lumber coming from across the Marin Headlands. And so it was a busy place, but it wasn’t really a place that you would hang out, you would go there to work or get fish from the fishermen.
Willa Seidenberg 7:17
So I just visited Sicily a few months ago, and I was so interested to read in your thesis that Sicilian immigrants and other Italian immigrants, were the ones really responsible for the development of Fisherman’s Wharf. I didn’t realize that.
Emi Takahara 7:35
Yeah, so the Italians first arrived in San Francisco around 1850s. Italy was having a pretty difficult time, there was a lot of civil wars that were happening. So a large number of Italians left the country in order to find work. And first wave of people that came to San Francisco, were from Liguria, and Tuscany, Genoa, and Lucca. And then there was another wave of Italians that came, that was in about the 1870s. And that was from the southern regions, Calabria and Sicily. And they came in by the thousands, there was a very large wave of immigration.
Willa Seidenberg 8:22
So what drew the Italians to the San Francisco region?
Emi Takahara 8:28
Well, San Francisco was becoming San Francisco because in 1849, they found gold, gold in them thar hills. And pretty much if you could get on a boat, and you weren’t making a lot of money, you were going to San Francisco to try to make your fortune from everywhere in the world. So hundreds of thousands of people descended onto the city, 1849, 1850 — just an enormous flood of people. Within a year from a tiny, little trading outpost with a few hundred people to just tens of thousands of people.
Willa Seidenberg 9:11
I would imagine that the Italians felt pretty comfortable in the Bay Area because the climate and the terrain is so similar to Southern Italy, particularly. What kinds of traditions did the Italians bring with them to Fisherman’s Wharf?
Emi Takahara 9:30
Yeah, they had these little boats that they used in Sicily called feluccas. They’re pretty small and really maneuverable. That was the primary fishing boat for the early Italian-Sicilian immigrants. The fishermen would often get the catch and then sometimes the fishermen themselves would sell to customers that would come. Other times there were middlemen who did the selling, and they really just set up dockside and sell fish to a lot of the housewives that would come down from the North Beach area and Telegraph Hill. Eventually, they moved from just having impromptu setups on the docks to having little stalls that were built by the Port of San Francisco. And right on Taylor, the Port built a number of stalls, so it was a little bit more formal. And they could prepare not only fish, they also had the cast iron cauldrons, and they would cook crab and shrimp in paper cones, and they call them walkaway cocktails.
So the story goes, Mike Geraldi, who was a Sicilian immigrant, he was one of the fish vendors. And I guess the fishermen had said to him, hey, you know, you cook for us? Why don’t you open a place? He opened a small restaurant, right on Taylor, which is what is now known as Restaurant Row.
Willa Seidenberg 11:21
And what year was that?
Emi Takahara 11:22
The year was 1935. And he did gangbusters and all of the other vendors saw he did so well, they all pretty much opened one restaurant after another. And that whole area was filled with restaurants eventually, including Joe DiMaggio’s family and they had a restaurant called DiMaggio’s.
Willa Seidenberg 11:46
Of course, we all know the DiMaggio name because of Joe DiMaggio, the Yankees baseball player who was married to Marilyn Monroe. So when Fishermen’s Grotto No. 9 opened, it was the very first full-service sit-down restaurant, right?
Emi Takahara 12:04
Yeah, it was the first place that you could get a waiter coming to your table and having the whole experience. They have these daily menus that they did. So for Wednesday, November 18, 1936. They have you know, fresh local cracked crab, and you can get that half or hole. Hole is 60 cents. And you can get deep-sea trout. Abalone was really popular for a long time, people ate a lot more abalone back then, and it was considered to be a real delicacy. And of course, there’s also prawn cocktail and Olympia oysters; they used to have a lot of Olympia oysters in the Bay Area. And they also did clam chowder. And Crab Louie, of course, the different kinds of seafood salads, which were really big, and that pretty much stayed the same until the day they closed.
Willa Seidenberg 13:06
And what would the original restaurant have looked like?
Emi Takahara 13:10
The original restaurant, you can still see what it looked like today. Even though it became one of the largest restaurants in the whole city where it first started on the bottom floor, they had this Venetian style. They had wooden booths, and beadboard on the ceilings. And the striped poles that gondolas often tie up to. Inside, brightly painted.
Willa Seidenberg 13:40
It sounds fabulous.
Emi Takahara 13:41
You know, they were really trying to fulfill what an American might have thought of being in Italy, which would have probably been Venice. And so it was probably the most like romantic and iconic thing they could think of.
Willa Seidenberg 13:55
So all of these restaurants were opening in the ’30s, right before World War II, how were they affected by the war?
Emi Takahara 14:03
Because the Italians and Sicilians were part of the axis of evil, they were deemed enemy aliens, especially if they were not American-born. So there were quite a few restrictions placed on Italians under Executive Order 9066. Llike the Japanese Americans, they had restrictions that were not nearly as severe. One of the people I interviewed was named Dave D’Mato, and he talked about how hard it was for his grandfather during that time.
Dave D’Mato 14:38
My grandparents were not naturalized citizens, they bought property and stuff, but they’d never learned English or applied for be a naturalized citizen. They just, you know, were living here. The Italian families had curfews and they had to be in inside at a certain time. And if you were a fisherman, you had to go out in a big group and you were chaperoned by the Coast Guard or the Navy, I’m not sure which it was. If you weren’t a citizen, you had to have a family member or somebody who was a citizen with you on the boat that would escort you on and off throughout the fishing that day. And if you didn’t, you were not allowed to even go near Fisherman’s Wharf. So for him, he was basically shut out. And they were forced to relinquish the boats at that point, from what I understand, I think he just hidden went into a depression.
Emi Takahara 15:19
Because of World War II and San Francisco being major port for the Pacific Fleet, I read that the Italian restaurants were doing gangbusters because of all the servicemen.
Willa Seidenberg 15:30
So it sounds like some people were able to thrive. But others ran into hardships because of the restrictions. One thing I did not realize is that cioppino originated in San Francisco.
Emi Takahara 15:50
Yeah, they’ve always said that cioppino has originated in San Francisco, and in a way it has, it’s kind of that food of the Italian diaspora. So the fishermen would make this stew that had fish and clams and crab and whatever they could find, probably throw in some tomatoes and wine and garlic and olive oil. There’s been a lot of speculation as to how cioppino got its name. So this was, you know, before the internet and, and people kind of guessing and people would write about it in cookbooks. So like in 1953, Helen Brown’s West Coast Cookbook, she actually has a recipe for cioppino. And what she says is “one story says that San Francisco’s fishermen did not introduce cioppino to California, but that an Italian name by Bazzuro, who ran a restaurant on a boat anchored off of Fisherman’s Wharf, is responsible. What’s more, it was supposed to have been an older recipe well known in Italy, this back in the 1850s, I refuse to believe it.” So, you know, people really wanted to believe that cioppino was a San Francisco-created dish. But the version that we serve is definitely from San Francisco. And we’ve claimed it for so long, for over a hundred years.
Willa Seidenberg 17:15
And is that on the menu of all restaurants on Fisherman’s Wharf?
Emi Takahara 17:19
Pretty much. Yeah, I don’t think you can go to a restaurant and not have cioppino. It’s like, not having Crab Louie.
Willa Seidenberg 17:26
It was interesting in your thesis how, even though a lot of those restaurants were started by Italian immigrants, that they weren’t necessarily serving Italian food. And you said that it sort of leaned more French?
Emi Takahara 17:43
Yeah, that was the popular thing to serve. And when you had sort of more formal dining, everybody skewed French, that was sort of the default. You know, Italian food was considered to be very ethnic. So I’m sure that the proprietors wanted to cater to kind of the mainstream and get people coming to their restaurant. I think they found that the seafood direction worked for them being on the water, and they did offer some spaghetti, they would have, you know, spaghetti and there were a couple of winks to their heritage.
Willa Seidenberg 18:24
One of the things that I thought was really wonderful also, when you were talking about Fishermen’s Grotto No. 9, is that not only was it family-owned, there was not a big turnover in the staff as well, that people who cooked and waited tables were there for a long time.
Emi Takahara 18:42
Yeah, it was pretty amazing. That is something that I, before I even did research that’s again, another one of the things that just going there as a customer when I kind of discovered the fireplace lounge, which was upstairs. There was a bartender there that I just started chatting with. And his name was Ning, and I just casually was asking him about working there. And he’s like, oh, yeah, I’ve been here for like 25 years. Anthony said, they were like family.
Anthony Geraldi 19:14
We had waitstaff and bartenders and busboys even that were there for 30, 40, even 50 years. I mean, it was incredible.
Willa Seidenberg 19:24
Okay, so all these restaurants were opening in the late ’30s and I assume throughout the ’40s, so were locals now coming to the Wharf?
Emi Takahara 19:34
So from the beginning, right since Mike Geraldi first opened his restaurant in ’35, and he was doing so well, that brought all of these locals down there. You know, just more and more people came, which meant more and more opportunities for people to sell them things. At the time that Mike Geraldi would have opened his restaurant, they had these little boats called Monterey Clippers, they were no longer using feluccas. They were now using Monterey Clippers that had engines and they called them Putt Putts. They literally were colorful in the way that the fishermen painted them, and the names they gave them. And so people could come down and see these Italian and Sicilian fishermen mending nets, they would often sing. Singing was a way that they actually were able to in the early days, figure out where they were on the water, it would be very foggy. So singing played a big role. And so I think that made for very romantic dining spot.
Willa Seidenberg 20:35
And it got so popular, you write that there were long lines throughout the ’50s and ’60s,
Emi Takahara 20:42
I was really surprised to find out that they were open till 2 am. There were lines. When I talked to Mike Geraldi, he said that people were really mean to him.
Mike Geraldi 20:55
And I’d go home crying every night because they would be so mean to me. Because, you know, they would ask you, How long do I have to wait? And I would say, you know, say approximately 30 to 40 minutes. And as soon as it went over the 40 minutes they’d come out, you told me 30 to 40 minutes, it’s been one hour. It was hard for a young guy, you know, in his early 20s to get yelled at like that.
Emi Takahara 21:19
A lot of celebrities were coming at that time. He mentions Elizabeth Taylor and Ronald Reagan and Muhammad Ali, you know, kind of real A-listers.
Willa Seidenberg 21:31
And so when did that popularity start to decline? Was that in the 70s?
Emi Takahara 21:37
Yeah.
Willa Seidenberg 21:39
So you write about Pier 39, which opened in 1978. Where is the pier in relation to Fisherman’s Wharf and what effect did its opening have on the wharf?
Emi Takahara 21:53
Pier 39 is located to the east of Fisherman’s Wharf, kind of in the northeast corner, it’s just, you know, a couple blocks away. And Pier 39 was a pier, a working pier, but then developers decided to build an amusement and shopping area. The city was also looking for a way to bring more people to the area. I think the area had started to kind of decline a little bit, and they were trying to, you know, refresh the area. So they thought that this was a good idea. And Pier 39 had jugglers and street performers, and bumper cars and a carousel and a lot of shops, two stories, the shops are all along the sides, and the central part is open. And it’s kind of like pier-shaped, kind of long, it juts out into the water, and you know, has great views. You know, it’s a place where you can go and buy one of those oysters that has a pearl. And there was a carousel, really fun place for kids.
Willa Seidenberg 23:03
And so that drew business away from the wharf itself?
Emi Takahara 23:07
Yeah, there were restaurants that opened up there. And so, Michael Giraldi, that’s Mike Geraldi’s grandson, he said that business dipped for a little while. It eventually kind of went back up, but it never was back to the kind of glory days of that time in the ’60s. From what I heard talking to one of the restauranteurs named Paul Capurro, is that, at that time, a lot of people who had been doing restaurants in the area for decades at that point, I think, got really used to having so many people. Maybe they weren’t keeping up quality so well, they weren’t being as competitive. And they let things slip.
Willa Seidenberg 23:56
Fishermen’s Grotto No. 9 stayed in the Geraldi family until 2016. But I would imagine a lot of those other restaurants were not in the hands of the original owners.
Emi Takahara 24:07
Oh, they actually were. They stayed. Yeah, generations ran the restaurants, most of them are all run by the same families.
Willa Seidenberg 24:15
But didn’t the pandemic have a big effect on the restaurants in Fisherman’s Wharf?
Emi Takahara 24:21
Yeah, it’s really devastated the wharf because it was so tourist-based. Again, Paul Capurro who I talked to, whose aunt opened the restaurant that he runs now. He just said that he convinced himself that he had a lot of locals coming in, but when the pandemic hit, that really wasn’t the case. I’d say that 50% of the restaurants closed during the pandemic.
Willa Seidenberg 24:48
Wow.
Emi Takahara 24:50
And some were, you know, real staples like Alioto’s, which is a pretty powerful San Francisco family. We had Mayor Alioto. It was very, very devastated, really quiet. So I think a lot of people have just decided to close instead of kind of dealing with the issues with the different generations running and the family issues and conflicts. Anthony Geraldi, who is the great-grandson of the founder, he talked about the challenges of working with family members.
Anthony Geraldi 25:24
I see it firsthand now. You know, there’s a saying that most family businesses don’t make it past the third generation. And I guess you kind of see why. You get the founder and he’s motivated, works his butt off. And then the second generation saw that and carried that on, and the third generation’s just kind of spoiled, and takes it for granted.
Willa Seidenberg 26:04
So is San Francisco, is the city helping the restaurants? And now San Francisco has a legacy business program is that of any help to the restaurants there?
Emi Takahara 26:16
Not very many of the businesses applied for legacy business.
Willa Seidenberg 26:20
Why do you think that is?
Emi Takahara 26:22
My feeling was that you know, it’s a bit of a process to go through to apply for legacy business status. And I think they probably felt like we’re doing fine. Legacy business doesn’t provide a lot of protections. They can help with a little bit of money. And if you have a landlord that you need to have work with, but the thing is, if your restaurant is on the north side of Jefferson Street, your landlord is the Port of San Francisco. So that’s kind of a whole other ball of wax. And some of these restaurants owed a lot of rent to the Port. They need to have people in there making money. And I’m sure they’re somewhat sympathetic to restaurants that have been there and have been good tenants and have been there for decades. But maybe they are seeing the writing on the wall and trying to move ahead. I don’t know, that’s just my kind of speculation if they want to try something, maybe different.
Willa Seidenberg 27:31
So are you worried about the future of Fisherman’s Wharf?
Emi Takahara 27:34
Well, kind of, you know, last year, there was an unsolicited proposal that three developers presented to the City of San Francisco about doing a rehabilitation of a part of Fisherman’s Wharf. And talking to Michael Geraldi, he said, Oh, these come up every 10, 15 years, nothing comes of it. You know, one of the developers is a very much invested San Franciscan. He is the owner of Boudin’s Bakery. There’s clam chowder in a sourdough bread bowl, which they claimed to have invented. I’m sure it’s not just money-making for him, I’m sure he wants the area to succeed. Talking to the president of the Fisherman’s Wharf Community Benefit District, you know, he really wants to try to bring in local restaurants to the wharf, kind of try to get a younger crowd interested in the area and breathe life into it. But I think it’s a pretty overwhelming thing to tackle. When asking him about, you know, what kind of activation he was trying to do, and trying to bring awareness to the heritage of the area, there’s a port walk, those were put up over 10 years ago. And you know, they’re great, but you just kind of have to know that they’re there. And you have to maybe walk off the main drag a little bit to see them. But again, I think people don’t really know about the Italian and Sicilian heritage, or even the early people, the Yelamu that lived there. They’re not thinking about it as being a place of heritage. They’re thinking of it as being tourist destination.
Willa Seidenberg 29:26
Was that intentional by the immigrants? Did they want to kind of fit into American culture, and so even though they might have used their name, were they less likely to want to play up their own heritage?
Emi Takahara 29:40
Yeah, I think, you know, again, being Italian at that time was you’re considered to be, you know, quote, ethnic, and for some people that not even white. So, I think there would have been some definite downplaying of heritage, but pretty early on a lot of these restaurants opened with their family names. But from my research, you know, Italian food was considered what we would call ethnic food. And that’s not you know, people are definitely moving away from using that that term. That was considered to be a pretty foreign food, really until the ’70s. And then it became very popular. And now it’s taken the place of French food.
Willa Seidenberg 30:26
Yeah, definitely has. After doing all this work on your thesis, do you think people are more inclined to go to Fisherman’s Wharf?
Emi Takahara 30:36
When I went into this, I was really interested in, you know, why people in San Francisco have been so neglectful of this place, which is actually, you know, very beautiful. If you’re there in the morning, and it’s sunny, and it’s not windy and the water’s all calm and glassy, it’s just totally magical. It’s really beautiful. And I think that during this research, and because of the changes in San Francisco in the past 10 years with all of the tech companies and people always looking for Old San Francisco, that’s a big thing in the past 10, 12 years. So when I was doing my research and asking about Fisherman’s Wharf, they’d be like, oh, yeah, yeah, that’s like a place that’s kind of like Old San Francisco, they’re always looking for Old San Francisco, you know, places that remind them of just not even, you know, 15 years ago, not that long ago, or when they were a kid. And Fisherman’s Wharf kind of checks that box. So I think that it’s no longer a place that San Franciscans look at as this place that they would never want to go. And I think that they are actually embracing it.
Willa Seidenberg 31:58
So does that leave you optimistic about what will happen with the area?
Emi Takahara 32:03
It does. I think it’s an area that a lot of San Franciscans felt like they haven’t spent very much time in. And, you know, people are always looking for new old things, or just new places to explore. And I think Fisherman’s Wharf presents a pretty good opportunity for maybe a lot of new restaurants. It does have fantastic views. I mean, usually views and food doesn’t equate with good food. But I think there can be a change.
Willa Seidenberg 32:36
And do you think that a lot of this growth will happen just organically on its own? Or do you think the city needs to step in and help the area achieve that kind of growth?
Emi Takahara 32:49
Yeah, I think the city needs to step in, again, partly because the Port of San Francisco, which is a governmental agency, is the landlord, I think they need to be able to work with business owners and having more affordable rents, making it easier for people to open restaurants. It’s already really hard to open restaurants in San Francisco. And the area that those restaurants are built on is actually a pier. And it’s kind of collapsing. So there’s a lot of complications, because it’s kind of like, well, gee, now a lot of these places aren’t there anymore. I know that they’re historic, but we need to do all this retrofitting. And you know, the pilings are rotting. And we need to do all of the, you know, this, like billion dollars of work. There are people who still have restaurants there, but I think it’s a real challenge and what they do with in terms of logistics, and money, it’s really messy.
Willa Seidenberg 33:56
Do you feel differently now about the place after having done the thesis?
Emi Takahara 34:02
Oh, for sure. Yeah, it’s like night and day. I mean, I feel like it is really a magical place. It’s one of the few places you can go in the city and be right on the water, and it’s kind of calm, and the city rises up behind you, and it’s just very, very picturesque and very beautiful. But then, you know, knowing that you can go and yeah, get some Dungeness crab, have a beer, you know, sit outside. Enjoy the view. Yeah, go at night, go during the offseason, I tried to tell people go, not during the tourist season go in the fall months, you’ll feel like a tourist in your own city. So it’s just a really special place that I think people really need to know about and discover that rich history that is pretty much hidden away.
Willa Seidenberg 34:58
Well, thank you Emi for giving us a new view of an old landmark. I look forward to visiting Fisherman’s Wharf next time I’m in the Bay Area, and I hope our Save As listeners will also. Thank you, Emi.
Emi Takahara 35:15
You’re welcome. I’m excited to tell you about it. And I hope everybody does go and visit and have some of that amazing seafood.
Cindy Olnick 35:27
Well, Trudi, as always, I learned so much from these episodes, it was good to hear Emi’s take on sort of all the different factors involved in keeping these businesses going. And as often with these episodes, I’m hungry. So let’s go up there. Get some crab and some beer. Oh, man, that sounds good.
Trudi Sandmeier 35:48
All right. Thanks, everyone, for joining us for this episode of Save As. You can see historic photos of Fisherman’s Wharf and the Fishermen’s Grotto No. 9 restaurant on our website at SaveAs.place.
Tune in next time for another fantastic episode.
Cindy Olnick 36:10
And if you haven’t already, please subscribe. Maybe leave us a review and tell a friend about the podcast. Thank you.
Trudi Sandmeier 36:17
This episode was produced by Willa Seidenberg with assists from Trudi and Cindy. We also had help from new member of the Dream Team, Evan McAvenia. Our original theme music is by Steven Conley with additional music by track tribe from the YouTube Audio Library.
Cindy Olnick 36:35
Save As is a production of the heritage conservation program in the School of Architecture at the University of Southern California.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
